tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post5829351552881902508..comments2022-06-10T22:26:42.828-05:00Comments on Looking In The Distance: On ForgivenessUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-27854437504938660552007-03-18T15:30:00.000-05:002007-03-18T15:30:00.000-05:00I think that the oldest son in the Prodigal son st...I think that the oldest son in the Prodigal son story always is portrayed as some sort of ‘deficient’ person. In many sermons about the Prodigal Son I have heard him spoken of as ‘judgmental’ or 'unforgiving' or 'resentful' while the Father and the Prodigal Son somehow come out as ‘heroes’ of this story.<BR/><BR/>Are we really being fair to the eldest son?<BR/><BR/>The Father’s story is one of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-49103668563334146322007-03-17T05:37:00.000-05:002007-03-17T05:37:00.000-05:00Archbishop Alan Harper was enthroned in St Patric...Archbishop Alan Harper was enthroned in St Patrick’s Cathedral, Armagh, N. Ireland on Friday, 16 march 2007. In his sermon he talked about forgiveness here in Ireland. Part of what he said was:<BR/><BR/>“I want to speak of the single most important issue for all of us here, in this island of Ireland, today. I want to speak of forgiveness and reconciliation. <BR/><BR/>I doubt if there are any Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-72164496291691195712007-03-11T04:09:00.000-05:002007-03-11T04:09:00.000-05:00Dear Moderator. Please forgive us for having stray...Dear Moderator. Please forgive us for having strayed!<BR/><BR/>If the teachings of Jesus & the NT are "(obviously) subject to personal interpretation" then, per se, so are the writings of Borg and everyone else.<BR/><BR/>If believing that Jesus' teaching is superior to that of all of the others (including Borg) makes me a fundamentailst, then I am happy to be labelled as one!<BR/><BR/>I agree Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-78974681995285725402007-03-10T21:38:00.000-05:002007-03-10T21:38:00.000-05:00Hi Guys:A suggestion from the moderator - this thr...Hi Guys:<BR/><BR/>A suggestion from the moderator - this thread is a discussion on "forgiveness". <BR/><BR/>Could we put further comments about Borg, being saved, born again etc into the 'Heart of Christianity' thread. I will be continuing an adult class in April discussing these aspects of Borg's book and it would be nice to have any further discussion located there.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-82336817164223237022007-03-10T21:31:00.000-05:002007-03-10T21:31:00.000-05:00Michael, Desmond and Tom:Of course, one follows th...Michael, Desmond and Tom:<BR/><BR/>Of course, one follows the teaching of Jesus before the teachings of Borg. However, the teachings of the bible and Jesus are subject to personal interpretation. I think that is obvious. So although I don’t agree with everything that Borg offers in his interpretation of the bible and Christianity, I think I do agree with him on the question of salvation and ‘Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-32491109348030973782007-03-10T17:21:00.000-05:002007-03-10T17:21:00.000-05:00Michael--always interested in the term "Fundamenta...Michael--always interested in the term "Fundamentalist Christian" and the suggestion that it somehow connotes something unsavoury.<BR/><BR/>Would I be correct in understanding that those who use the term mean those whom they would decsribe as "born again Christians"?<BR/><BR/>My understanding is that a Christian is indeed someone who, however ineffectually, endeavours to following the teachings Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-7699480442968182112007-03-10T14:23:00.000-05:002007-03-10T14:23:00.000-05:00Desmond asked: ‘Michael - Do I detect an aversion...Desmond asked: <I><B>‘Michael - Do I detect an aversion to the concept of "being saved" I wonder?”</I></B><BR/><BR/>In the sense of ‘saved’ as used by fundamentalist Christians, I guess the answer is ‘yes’. I am averse to that. <BR/><BR/>But as Marcus Borg points out in the book “Heart of Christianity” discussed earlier in this blog, salvation in the bible is mostly concerned with something Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-29146508137484491752007-03-10T09:38:00.000-05:002007-03-10T09:38:00.000-05:00To Michael--ref your comment to Peter--maybe they ...To Michael--ref your comment to Peter--maybe they should do both. Our Lord did.<BR/>He was able to forgive those who put him to death & it was also He who said that we should forgive others as we are ourselves forgiven.<BR/>That does not preclude the necessity of salvation. Do I detect an aversion to the concept of "being saved" I wonder?<BR/><BR/>As for the politics in NI--sadly, Christian Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-35162648150313819652007-03-09T23:01:00.000-05:002007-03-09T23:01:00.000-05:00I would like to suggest that we differentiate betw...I would like to suggest that we differentiate between forgiveness and forgetting. I fully agree with the Holloway quotation that forgiveness is so that we need not be locked into the past. Without forgiveness, the harm done continues to do harm within us; it turns to bitterness. Forgiveness is setting the hurt aside within me as part of the past and no longer allowing it to poison my life. It Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-87737954893960319992007-03-09T22:06:00.000-05:002007-03-09T22:06:00.000-05:00Dave:After I saw your post I got a copy of the Sme...Dave:<BR/><BR/>After I saw your post I got a copy of the Smedes book from the library and had a breeze through it.<BR/><BR/>It's a good read! One quote struck me which went as follows -<BR/><BR/><B><I>"Anger and forgiving can live together in the same heart. You are not a failure at forgiving just because you are still angry that a painful wrong was done to you. Remember you cannot erase the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-88854527611205027642007-03-09T07:52:00.000-05:002007-03-09T07:52:00.000-05:00Peter:Time will tell! We should know soon but it ...Peter:<BR/><BR/>Time will tell! We should know soon but it is surprising to me countries that are quite 'religious' (including the South in the USA) are the least tolerant. Maybe the ministers over there and here should stop talking about the afterlife, being saved etc. and start to talk about forgiveness in the present life.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>MichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-15080131200440781922007-03-08T21:23:00.000-05:002007-03-08T21:23:00.000-05:00Hi Michael:Dream on there is no forgiveness here! ...Hi Michael:<BR/><BR/>Dream on there is no forgiveness here! This is from the Belfast Telegraph:<BR/><BR/><I><B>"The ebullient Mr Paisley, who described the poll as a vote for righteousness, yesterday maintained his usual stance of refusing to speak to his potential coalition partner Martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein. Passing close to Mr McGuinness at an election count, Mr Paisley said: “I will not Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-27592459723048957812007-03-08T07:04:00.000-05:002007-03-08T07:04:00.000-05:00Joan:I would agree that Libby should be pardoned, ...Joan:<BR/><BR/>I would agree that Libby should be pardoned, not because I think he should be forgiven since he has not yet accepted responsibility for what he did, but because as Dave said there has been enough "retributive" justice in what he has been through to date with the expenses he has had to put out defending himself. A pardon with some agreement by Libby to do some pro bono legal work Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-11163572601233988042007-03-08T06:49:00.000-05:002007-03-08T06:49:00.000-05:00I am from Northern Ireland which was holding elect...I am from Northern Ireland which was holding elections yesterday for a power sharing parliament. <BR/><BR/>In this book Holloway mentioned the NI conflict as well as the Bosnia one and that between Palestine and Israel as places where forgiveness of the unforgiveable is needed.<BR/><BR/>I am watching the papers to see if at least in the land of my roots forgiveness will finally click in. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-32747639148184574042007-03-07T17:51:00.000-05:002007-03-07T17:51:00.000-05:00An interesting suggestion by some jurors from the ...An interesting suggestion by some jurors from the Scooter Libby trial is that even though they found him guilty they would like to see him pardoned. I wonder if Bush pardoned him would that be seen as an act of forgiveness or does forgiveness depend on what political party one belongs to? JoanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-27410014422090459712007-03-07T17:41:00.000-05:002007-03-07T17:41:00.000-05:00Vinny:Bonhoeffer wrote “The test of whether we ha...Vinny:<BR/><BR/>Bonhoeffer wrote “The test of whether we have truly found the peace of God will be in how we face the sufferings which befall us. There are many Christians who bend their knees before the cross of Jesus Christ well enough, but who do nothing but resist and struggle against every affliction in their own lives. Whoever regards suffering and trouble in their own life as something Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-49691707472527707692007-03-06T16:39:00.000-05:002007-03-06T16:39:00.000-05:00I don't forgive if the other guy doesn't apologize...I don't forgive if the other guy doesn't apologize. Simple but it works for me.<BR/><BR/>PianomanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-76520620946138635392007-03-06T16:33:00.000-05:002007-03-06T16:33:00.000-05:00Vinny There was a good article on March 3, 2007 di...Vinny There was a good article on March 3, 2007 directly on this question at Spokesmanreview.com entitled “Exploring the Power of Forgiveness”<BR/><BR/>http://www.spokesmanreview.com/features/story.asp?ID=177083<BR/><BR/>Virginia De Leon was the author and she quoted John Roth, an internationally recognized scholar in the field of Holocaust and genocide studies who said:<BR/><BR/>"We all know Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-23642150203727472902007-03-05T20:18:00.000-05:002007-03-05T20:18:00.000-05:00Dave - I'm not sure you would find many Jewish rel...Dave - I'm not sure you would find many Jewish relatives of those who died in Hitler's gas chambers prepared to forgive him and why should they?<BR/><BR/>It's an interesting question but Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German Lutheran pastor. I wonder if anyone knows if his family ever expressed forgiveness for his hanging? That would clearly be an example of the type of forgiveness that Derrida and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-40653978973434990532007-03-05T09:16:00.000-05:002007-03-05T09:16:00.000-05:00nice slick website Michaelvery professionally put ...nice slick website Michael<BR/><BR/>very professionally put together!<BR/><BR/>PBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1747503782613986319.post-33044061547512795042007-03-04T22:45:00.000-05:002007-03-04T22:45:00.000-05:00Anybody read "Forgive and Forget" by Lewis Smedes?...Anybody read "Forgive and Forget" by Lewis Smedes? I saw a great quote about it ... something to the effect that anger does more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than the object upon which it is poured. Bit trite but it keeps coming back to me. I think Smedes does a great job though I agree with Holloway that one doesn't forgive the act just the one committing the act. He could have Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com